Anyone here a Bon Jovi fan? I AM! LOL I love his song “I’ll Be There for You”—I’ll try to include a link here before the end of the post. This is one saying that I see a LOT when I’m editing. What’s wrong with that, you ask? Well, I edit a LOT of historical fiction. I don’t remember ever hearing it “back in the dark ages” of the 1950’s and 1960’s…so I guess maybe the 70’s was when it got to be popular. The 1970’s, not the 1870’s, y’all. I don’t believe a knight would tell his lady he’d “be there” for her…at least not for another 500-800 years, or somewhere around that, anyhow.
Here’s another one that’s jarring to me—the use of “morph” for “change”—it reminds me of those wonderful days when my son Casey was a young boy and so, so crazy about the Power Rangers. Anyone remember them? They were popular in the 1990’s. Five teenagers—two girls and three boys— (later changed to a total of six) who had the power to change from mere teens to THE POWER RANGERS! How did they accomplish this? They gave each other meaningful looks and said, “It’s morphin’ time!” And with some fancy camera work, there they were, in their Power Ranger color-coded uniforms. All…morphed…
How about the response to “Thank you.”? Truly…can you picture a knight responding with “No problem.”? No…me either. Yet, sometimes that’s the response that crops up in historical manuscripts. It doesn’t matter how politely one responds, the response has not been invented or introduced into thought or speech patterns of that time.
Another simple one that turns up a lot in response to “How are you?” is … “I’m good.” When did this phrase come into existence? I don’t ever remember this being said until only in the last couple of decades. When talking about someone else—“He’s good to go.” No…you might hear that on Blue Bloods or Law and Order, but not so much in 1860’s Indian Territory.
Here are a couple of words that tend to creep in a lot—and shouldn’t—flashback and replay. Remember what these words are really saying, what they convey to people of this day and age who are reading the stories we’re writing. A medieval knight or a drifting cowboy will have no idea what “replaying something in his mind” even means—or that he’s having a “flashback” to when he was fighting at the battle of Honey Springs. Or that he’s “flashing back” to something that might have been a sweet memory in his early years. These characters are going to just be remembering, recalling, or thinking back to something… When you use this type of modern wording that refer to contemporary actions/equipment, it’s easy to pull readers out of the story. Because my husband is such a sports fan, I can’t hear or read the word “replay” without thinking of the sports connotation it carries. Flashback—this conjures up images of Hollywood movie scenes.
“Well, it’s all about you, isn’t it?” This is one that creeps in every so often, too. It “being all about” one person or another—or NOT “being all about” them is something that should never, ever, ever show up in any kind of historical writing. It’s easy to do—these contemporary sayings are so normal to us we can’t imagine NOT using them in daily conversation—problem is, it’s our job to check and double check what our characters are saying. If we don’t, they go out into the world showing that we have not “brought them up” correctly.
That reminds me—do you know the difference between being “reared” and “raised”? The standard saying used to be that “Children are reared; livestock is raised.” Those lines have blurred in modern times. I still remember my mother talking about children being “reared” and her brother “raising” cattle. She was born in 1922, so I would say that distinction has faded only during my lifetime.
This is “picky” but it’s the sort of thing that readers will seize on—and there are certain word usages and phrases that will definitely pull me right out of a story that’s written in historical times, so I’m sure that’s true of others, as well.
These are a few of the many “uh-ohs” I see when I’m reading/editing. What are some you’ve come across?
If you are a FRIENDS tv show fan, you know that there is another “I’ll Be There for You” – the theme of the show by the Rembrandts. There’s also a Kenny Rogers song that uses that phrase. But I promised you Bon Jovi! Here he is singing “I’ll Be There for You”—a wonderful song to turn up loud and belt out when you’re driving…just remember, in historical fiction writing, we have to find another way to say this. Kinda makes me sad, but we have to wait for it to be invented.
I know I'm guilty of some of these faux pas, although I try to avoid 'modern' language. This is a really useful post, and I appreciate you reminding me of the importance of the use of historical language, that still makes sense to the modern reader. Sometimes it's good to educate.
ReplyDeleteAlso, love Bon Jovi! Doris
Doris, it's really so easy to do--these mistakes just slip in and they're so sneaky! I found one I know I would have made at some point. While I was researching this blog post, I came across another post about words that sounded like they'd been around awhile but really hadn't. One of those was "scrapbook"--which has only been used since the 1940's! I would have thought that would be much older. I love to learn about words and phrases like this!
DeleteAs much as I might have laughed reading some of these modern vs historical errors in phrases, I am certain I have committed some of these sins along the way. So, I'll just keep my big bazoo shut except to say, "Thank goodness there are editors." And there are some big differences even between editors, so it's a mighty fortunate thing we have you, Cheryl, here at PRP.
ReplyDeleteI love Jon Bon Jovi, his music and his philosophy. Besides being an excellent singer, he is a good and generous human being. Thanks for the video!
Good things to your corner of the universe...
Sarah, I was laughing while I was writing this, too. Especially when I wrote "I'm good." under Bill Tilghman's photo. LOLLOL But that's what I think when I come across something like this in a manuscript, too, and gosh we sure don't want our readers cracking up while they're reading--especially if it's a very serious scene.
DeleteI love Bon Jovi, too. He really does so much good in the world--one of those performers who really does work hard to make a difference. We need more like him. And there's no better music to listen to when you're driving. LOL
Thanks so much for stopping by today!
Last week I read a medieval romance and when someone gave the heroine a glass of water, she said, "Perfect." Um...
ReplyDeleteOh my gosh! Well, talk about being pulled right out of the story and plopped down on a couch with a Coke in one hand and a brownie in the other! LOL It honestly would have been hard for me to continue on with that story. I am sure in editing I have let some of these get by me, but that's one thing I really try hard to keep an eagle eye out for.
DeleteThanks for the chuckle, Cheryl! I do like to write historical fiction sometimes, but neither I nor any of my readers born in medieval times or old west, so it can be tricky to get the language right. You don't want to confuse the reader by writing in faux old English either. I shudder to think of what anachronisms I've planted in my stories, but I'm frequently Googling "origin of phrase..." so hopefully I'm avoiding committing that sin too often. Sometimes I find a phrase was in use back in the day but if I think the reader will question it, I don't use it. Stay vigilant, Editor!
ReplyDeletePatti, I'm just as guilty as anyone else of using words/phrases that probably weren't in existence at the time. I do try to be careful, and if I'm in doubt I always look it up. And goodness no---I would certainly get all tangled up in "thee" and "thou" and so many other "old" words that would have been authentic, but are so difficult to read and "follow" these days. Sometimes those can be just as distracting as words that weren't in use at the time! I think most of us are careful and will succeed in "keeping it real" as long as we just question if it was in use at that time. I read a ms once that actually had "how do you like me now?" in the dialogue...cringe.
DeleteFascinating and apt. I'm sure you've pulled some of these out of my writing too. Language can be really tricky. You use it every day and don't notice how it changes. It's even harder when you don't notice the syntax and expressions from your other languages creeping in too!
ReplyDeleteChristine, it happens to everyone! I think languages are so fascinating. There are certain expressions that just aren't as forceful in some languages as they are in others. LOL I really enjoyed your post on Gaelic words. Some of my ancestors came from Ireland and Scotland. I've always wanted to go over there and visit, but doubt I ever will at this point. I've always wanted to learn to speak Gaelic--I know it's tough! I don't know if you ever watched NCIS (the original one)but they had a character on there, Ziva David, who was Israeli and spoke several languages. She had some of the idiomatic expressions in English mixed up sometimes, and I know there are people who do know several languages, but I'm thinking maybe 2 or 3 would definitely be my limit at this point. LOL
DeleteThank you. Lol, oh, I SO do that. Button belly is one of my classics and my husband now refuses to call the swimming pool anything but a swimming pond as he looks at me with a glint in his eye.
DeleteLOL Oh that is funny. You know even here in the States in different parts of the country we have different sayings and words we use that aren't known elsewhere. I'd been raised in Oklahoma (or should I say "reared"?) and we moved to West Virginia the summer I turned 17. When people out there spoke of a "berm/burm" on the road, I didn't know what they were talking about. In Oklahoma, it's called the "shoulder" of the road (or the side of the road). Other things like that, too.
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ReplyDeleteThanks, Jodi! I agree--movie and tv scripts sometimes have some horrible writing in them and you just have to wonder, don't you? I remember seeing that re-make of The Magnificent Seven. I can't remember the exact words/phrases that were used that jarred me, but I do remember thinking that as I was watching it.
DeleteWe have similar backgrounds, and I still live here in Oklahoma so I definitely DO speak "country" sometimes, too. Thanks for stopping by, Jodi and congratulations on your new release--BLACKBERRY ROAD! I love that story!
June 15, 2018 at 1:37 PM
Delete(I don't know what happened, but here is my original reply AGAIN)
Great post, Cheryl! You've touched on a subject dear to my heart. It's not just authors who make these mistakes, but movie makers, as well. So much of the dialogue in period movies is modernized. I think "The Magnificent Seven" with Denzel Washington (though a pretty good remake of the original), committed some glaring misstatements and modernistic antics that were pointed out by certain critics.
Since Blackberry Road is my first try at historic writing, I knew I had to try to be correct down to the last "hisself." It wasn't as hard to write "country" as I thought it would be since I was blessed as a kid to have been around many of my older relatives who had been farmers and sharecroppers in Oklahoma during the 1930s. Shoot, I carried a lot of that country lingo with me and still remember my red face when I told a teacher "I seen . . ." She corrected me graciously, but I remember it as if it was yesterday, lol!
Good job, Cheryl!
Jodi, I'm not sure what happened, but your first comment appeared fine--I answered it. Then after you wrote this second comment it was showing that you'd removed the first one. Boy, Blogger can be a tricky beast! Thank you for putting it up again!
DeleteI don't write historical, but I'm apparently a dinosaur because I've been told that nobody uses the word "slacks" anymore. It's pants. Remember when ladies wore slack suits? Nobody says that anymore. You also don't hear track suit anymore for jogging apparel. And tennis shoes. We used to say that all the time for what are now called sneakers. It's hard to be a dinosaur in a society that is morphing all around me by folks who were raised wrong. It's bad enough having to dodge those folks on the highways as they zip in and out of lanes without a care in the world.
ReplyDeleteLOL YOU MADE ME LAUGH OUT LOUD! I thought about tennis shoes the other day and how we don't use that anymore. Another one was "bobby socks"--then we had "slouch socks"... now what do we have????? Yes, slacks...hadn't thought of that for ages. My mom used to call them slacks. I wonder where that word came from? Oh, but, Maggie...you said "highways" in your comment, and you know that old poem "The Highwayman"? See, that's a modern sounding word that is really older than it sounds! They're all over the place! Thanks for coming by today and making me laugh!
DeleteOh, and Maggie, what about THONG? When I was growing up, a pair of thongs meant those rubber sandals that every kid in the world had that came in different colors. Now, when you say "thong" you mean those very uncomfortable panties...LOL We really do have to watch it.
DeleteMy daughter laughs at me every time I mention thongs. The sandal kind, not the panty kind. The panty meaning of "thong" just has never managed to find a spot in my feeble brain.
DeleteOh, mine either, Jacquie. I will always think of "thongs" as those rubbery sandals we used to wear as kids. LOL
DeleteCheryl,
ReplyDelete(Internet issues yesterday, so finally able to post a comment.)
As a kid, I stepped on many rusty nails wearing those rubbery/spongy thong sandals. Never seemed to find nails when I was wearing real shoes. lol Reared and raised... hmmm. I've definitely been using those two words incorrectly. On the tennis shoes vs. sneakers: Remember the pointy-toed, wing-tipped, thin-soled women's cowboy boots "Tony Lamas"? We called them Tenny Lamas. And slacks. I called them slacks just a few years ago when I was still teaching. I, too, am a fashion dinosaur.
When I taught junior high social studies and high school history, I used two movies to illustrate anachronisms. With junior high students, the move was "El Dorado" (animated movie, not John Wayne - lol. For high school, the movie was "A Knight's Tale". I'd acquaint the students with the culture and language of the particular time period in the movies, then we'd watch the movies for anachronisms.
Do you remember the remake of Romeo and Juliet with Leo DiCaprio? They used modern settings/characters but made no changes to the play other than that the "weapons" they carried were rifles and pistols rather than swords, etc. I thought that was so unusual--of course it was dissed by the critics, but there was nothing else like it for showing the juxtaposition of all the elements of classical literary writing mixed with contemporary times and venues of expression. It was pretty amazing for that alone, though I will admit, it was "not for everyone"--still always thought it might be a good way to get highschool kids to be interested in Shakespeare.
DeleteCheryl,
DeleteI didn't think to use that version of Romeo and Juliet. It would be a good one for comparing then and now.
It was really different, wasn't it!
DeleteI know a lot of people disagree, but if you've seen John Wayne's "True Grit" then you have experienced a true example of the manner of speech common among Americans in the 19th Century. I say this based on a great deal of reading histories and novels written in the 1800's. I have also read a large number of personal letter from the 19th and early 20th centuries and I am convinced that True Grit represents the true usage of English in that period...ya'll.
ReplyDeleteMike, I totally agree with you. And if you read the book by Charles Portis, you'll remember that the speech and speech patterns that the characters used in the movie were many times taken directly from the book itself. That was just an excellent story, both the book and the movie, and in both cases, really authentic.
DeleteLoved that hot rock video! I need the new and popular words. I'm always searching and trying to find out what the kids are saying now days. I want to speak 80 and that's a mistake. lol
ReplyDeleteCindy, I'm the same way! Oh yes! Give me the songs that have actual lyrics! LOL
DeleteI apologize for being so late. Have had numerous problems with computer since was badly hacked 2 mos . ago and also eye problems so was limited to how long I could use computer--getting better now. So I finally caught up and so enjoyed this article. I have to reread and reread again when I write to make sure I am wording things right. However, I'm sure you've most likely corrected something I've sent in that needed tweeking. I continue to love the word gunslinger and so many authors, etc. havesaid that's a no no to use in the 1800's as it wasn't used until 1900's. That being said I've read countless books by leading authors including or even in their title--gunslinger. So darnit, I'm using gunman instead in my WIP. Oh, I'm so tempted to use gunslinger, but I know for a fact you would have to change it. LOL
ReplyDeleteBev, that's the great thing about the internet--you are NEVER late! LOL So glad you were able to make it and leave a comments. Hackers...just part of life anymore, I guess, but how I wish otherwise. Hope your eyesight is much better by now and that you're able to get on the computer--I've missed you! Yes, gunslinger...sigh. I bet I've used that before in some of my stories before I knew not to. LOL
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